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Inclusive storytelling comes in a variety of forms—from books, to the stage, to the screen. But… what role does representation play? What happens when the entertainment industry highlights inclusive stories? And what’s possible when we begin getting curious and asking questions like this?
With a journey that’s taken her to Harvard, Walt Disney, Google, and even the TEDx stage—Julie Ann Crommett knows just how impactful representation is in storytelling! And how inclusivity has the power to help us solve big problems in the world. Julie Ann shares about the importance of belonging, what the CSI effect is, the ripple effect of DEIB work, and what’s necessary for the long-term sustainability of DEIB work. Join us as we nerd out on the philosophy of EDI work in the arts!
In this episode, we cover:
Julie Ann’s theater and DEIB origin story
The importance of belonging
The impactful theater group Julie Ann founded at Harvard
Why Julie Ann segued from theater to film and TV
Why inclusive storytelling matters
Insightful research about young girls and STEM
What the CSI Effect is
Julie Ann’s work with Google
The ripple effect of DEIB work in entertainment and theater
The business case for representation
Why we need to harness an abundance vs scarcity mentality
The story behind Collective Moxie
What’s necessary for the long-term sustainability of DEIB work
I’m leaving this conversation with such joy and inspiration! So much is possible when we tap into that abundance mindset, get curious, and work together for the betterment of our world. We’d love to hear your takeaways from this episode. Say hello on Instagram!
More About Julie Ann Crommett
Julie Ann (she/her/ella) is the Founder and CEO of Collective Moxie, dedicated to reshaping DEI strategies in media and tech. With 15 years of experience, she’s led initiatives at The Walt Disney Studios, diversifying talent in films like ENCANTO and BLACK PANTHER, and co-founding the Disney Launchpad: Shorts Incubator. She also spearheaded the creation of the GA List to highlight Georgia-based writers. Previously, Julie Ann led DEI efforts at Google and NBCUniversal. She currently teaches inclusive storytelling at Georgia Tech and co-created a course at Columbia University. Raised in Atlanta, she holds a BA in English from Harvard.
Links & Mentioned Resources
Related Episodes
Connect with Julie Ann:
Connect with Kira:
Thanks for joining me on this episode of Inclusive Stages! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help me reach even more theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone.
Thanks to our music composer, Zachary McConnell, and our producer, Leah Bryant.
More about the Inclusive Stages Podcast
Welcome to 'Inclusive Stages' -- the go-to weekly podcast for theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone. We'll chat with actors, directors, designers, scholars, and more about the current landscape of the theater scene and get their thoughts on how we can do better.
Host Kira Troilo will also give you a sneak peek into live EDI coaching sessions and offer actionable tips for creating more equitable, inclusive, and empathetic theater spaces that support and value the diversity of artists and audiences. Join the conversation, and let's collectively shape the future of human-first theater, one stage at a time.
This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you.
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Inclusive Stages podcast follows:
Kira Troilo (00:02.453)
Hi Julianne. How's it going?
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (00:03.704)
Hey, Kira. It's going great. It's just a joy to be here with you.
Kira Troilo (00:09.525)
It is such a joy to see you. You just like lit up my screen.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (00:13.761)
my gosh, same right back. This is just some theater love going on right now.
Kira Troilo (00:18.281)
Yes, I'm so excited to talk to you about all the things, but we've got to know first what your theatre origin story is. And you told me it's epic, so I'm excited.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (00:26.318)
my gosh. my gosh. Well, let me tell you when you called me about this podcast and I saw it was in theater, I was kind of like, yes. Correct. I said once a theater kid, always a theater kid. you know, I feel like this probably shared from all of your guests in some way. so, I'm a very proud, so a little bit about my origin story. I'm a very proud Puerto Rican and Cuban American. I was raised in San, that's right. Pa que tu lo sepas.
Kira Troilo (00:35.669)
The theater nerd within us.
Kira Troilo (00:44.873)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (00:54.901)
Yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (00:55.374)
I was born in San Juan, Puerto Rico. Spanish is actually my first language, English is my second. And then my mom is from Cuba, raised in Puerto Rico. My dad was born in the mainland and then raised in Puerto Rico too. And then I learned English in Jersey. And then I grew up in Atlanta. And that's where my theater origin story begins because I was always a performer as a kid. Like my parents actually called me the mayor because
Kira Troilo (01:11.818)
Yep.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (01:23.586)
We would go to restaurants. is a true story. was four years old and then I would get up on my own, walk around the restaurant and ask everybody, how was your meal going? How was your evening? As if I worked at the restaurant and was checking in on everybody. correct. I think campaigning might be the other, I think they might've meant that, but here we are. and so I was always the sort of performer type kid, right? I was so curious about people.
Kira Troilo (01:27.05)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (01:40.103)
Yeah, or campaigning like a mare.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (01:51.788)
and wanting to engage with people. And so I started taking dance lessons when I was five. Ballet, of course, naturally as you start with the ballet. And then I was gonna break my ankle, so I switched over to jazz and hip hop, which I never looked back, as well as tap and a bunch of other things. And I started to really feel like the stage was like a home for me. I felt like myself in the theater. I don't think dissimilar from a lot of people where...
Kira Troilo (02:01.088)
Yep, of course.
Kira Troilo (02:05.726)
Okay.
Kira Troilo (02:16.534)
Mmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (02:20.322)
I've always felt a bit odd and not of the mainstream, if you will, and always looking for acceptance and belonging, which we're probably gonna talk about a lot today. And I found that in the theater community. So I started taking acting classes at the Alliance Theater in Atlanta. I had incredibly supportive parents. The Alliance Theater, of course, at the time was being run by Kenny Leon, and who is now of Broadway fame with currently a production of Our Town.
Kira Troilo (02:25.481)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (02:29.793)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (02:44.81)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (02:50.054)
and I, I, I, I started to really find my voice, I think through those theater classes, I took improv, right? Acting for stage, acting for screen, improv comedy is probably the thing that stuck with me the most. I think it's such an amazing skillset, no matter what you do in life, to be able to listen to people and react and think on your feet. and also to say yes, and which actually is insanely powerful in DEIB work as well.
Kira Troilo (02:55.895)
Hmm.
Kira Troilo (03:03.595)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (03:19.122)
Yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (03:19.886)
And so yeah, so I was a theater kid, did musicals, then started doing high school theater, et cetera. And then in college, I went to college convinced I was gonna be an actor. I knew I wanted to work in entertainment since the age of five, in some way, or form. But I got thrown into stage managing a dance show. This is really the real, real origin story, which is that there was a dance troupe on campus at Harvard that was called City Step.
Kira Troilo (03:38.711)
Mmm!
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (03:47.616)
And what they did is they worked with middle schoolers at local schools around the university around expressing yourself, your body, your emotions through dance. And they would put on this annual show, by the way, the organization has now grown to multiple universities. I mean, it's amazing. And they would put on this annual show with the students and they asked, would you stage manage? Look, I haven't stage managed in my life, but in the good spirit, I said, yes, of course, because you know, it's collaboration, it's theater.
Kira Troilo (04:16.907)
We jump in, yep.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (04:17.47)
And I got addicted. I have to tell you, like, I went, wait a second, I say something in a microphone and everybody does it. The God complex like kicked in is what I'm gonna say. And then I said, what is this producing thing we speak of? And that's when I started producing theater, I was in college and I decided I wanted to be behind the scenes and make things happen with a group of people and a vision, you know?
Kira Troilo (04:26.851)
Whoa.
Yep.
Mmm.
Kira Troilo (04:43.34)
Hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (04:43.414)
And so I actually started the Latinx Latino theater troupe at Harvard, which is still going to this day, Harvard College Teatro. And I was directly inspired by Blackcast, the black student organization that I had been producing theater with them. They actually were the ones that brought me on to producing. And I produced August Wilson's Ma Rainey's Black Bottom. I then produced Susan Laurie Parks, several plays by Susan Laurie Parks, who remains one of my favorite playwrights.
Kira Troilo (04:51.646)
Wow!
Kira Troilo (04:56.492)
Yep.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (05:13.258)
It was by doing the work with Blackcast that inspired me to ask the question, why do we not have a venue for Latin and Latin American theater? It's a huge canon, gigantic canon. And I said, we're gonna perform it in whatever language it needs to be in. If it's written in Spanish, we'll perform it Spanish. If it's written in English, we'll perform it English. If it's bilingual, bilingual. And that's what we did. And so we did Federico García Lorcas, Bodas de Sangre or Blood Wedding, which had 17 cast members.
Kira Troilo (05:25.1)
Huge.
Kira Troilo (05:32.13)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (05:43.01)
We were a bit ambitious, I will say. But it was the first time that somebody ever looked at me and questioned the sort of validity of my community's art and people showing up because the head of the Office of the Arts at Harvard at the time actually looked at me and said, would enough people audition and would enough people come? And I, at 20 years old, was incredulous. This is actually the origin story of my DEIB work too, by the way.
Kira Troilo (06:08.236)
I was gonna say this ties really nicely into the next part.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (06:10.602)
It does. It really does. And I tell the story because I think it's really important for also people to hear if they're feeling or experiencing this, which is somebody asked me this, questioned it. And of course, at 20 years old, I was incredulous. mean, hello, Mayor. You know, I mean, I was like, what? What? Of course. And so we had 50 people audition, 50. And we had about half from the Boston community and half from the university, which is pretty amazing. And then we sold out by closing night.
Kira Troilo (06:18.253)
Yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (06:39.712)
And about half our audience was from the Boston community and half in the University because nobody else was producing this theater anywhere in the city. And so we feel the need. And here's the truth is you can't account for audiences you haven't been accounting for.
Kira Troilo (06:55.417)
Mmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (06:57.28)
and there is the opportunity. And when I think about it, that is the moment of origin. Like when I think back, that was the beginning of the whole journey forward from there into where I am today. And by the way, the theater troupe is still thriving. Students have kept it alive. And I was just doing a panel like this at the Smithsonian for the Museum of the American Latino. And I mentioned this on the panel and audibly.
Kira Troilo (07:03.321)
Hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (07:22.338)
this young man in the audience who actually was running the program that we were speaking to students with, and he audibly gasped and said, I had no idea he had been in the theater troupe in undergrad. And there we kept going. And so for me, it's all about that. That's the whole kitten caboodle right there. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (07:36.919)
stop. And there you go.
Kira Troilo (07:42.554)
That's amazing. Well, I can confirm personally too, because I'm in the Boston area. That's where I'm talking to you from now and working with Harvard. yes, Blackcast and all that. Yes, it's amazing.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (07:49.504)
Yes!
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (07:56.984)
was still going and the AAPI community launched a theater troupe after Teatro as I found out based on Black Cast and Teatro. And so on and on we go as you know. Yep.
Kira Troilo (08:06.649)
Wow. Anonikos? Yes. Wow, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing. I, yeah, I mean, it's just, it seems like such a straight line to where you ended up or, you know, where you are ending up at this moment, right? Yeah, I mean, so from there, I mean, you took some stops along the way that excited me. So can you maybe talk a little bit about your work? Like in the, in some...
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (08:19.618)
Yes. Yes, yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (08:33.642)
Absolutely, the Securities Journey that went from there.
Kira Troilo (08:36.758)
Yes, yeah.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (08:38.978)
gosh, you know, it's such a straight line in hindsight, you know, but when you're going through it, right, you're thinking, what am I doing? Yes.
Kira Troilo (08:42.324)
Yeah, same. Yep.
Yeah, I mean absolutely the same. It's, you know, like while you're in it, wait, what? How am I gonna, yeah, make a living? And then you're like, I was learning these things along the way that were gonna make me into, you know, the job I created for myself, you know?
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (08:50.093)
Yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (08:54.946)
Totally, absolutely.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (09:02.114)
That's exactly right. No, I'm laughing with you because you know, and I think it's so important to say that out loud because all of us at any moment, right, are experiencing this doubt or thinking, am I the only one? Right? Or, or am I, am I just out to lunch? Like, you know what I mean? And everybody else knows something I don't. And I think the truth of this is like, nobody knows anything and we're all trying to figure it out.
Kira Troilo (09:07.492)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (09:13.326)
Mm-hmm, yep.
Kira Troilo (09:20.249)
Right?
No. That's right. like how many people are just like, don't have a certificate. I don't have a degree. I don't have the credentials. And like, just do it. You just, yes, you.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (09:28.814)
Bye.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (09:32.44)
Do it. Yeah. And have faith and confidence in your own brain and have insatiable curiosity. That is the one, like, if I could say anything, think asking questions is the most unlocking thing about what we do in the DEIB space. But I think what we can do as humans and the discovery, it's like having this podcast, right, Kira? It must be also that you're learning. I feel this as a podcaster learning from each and every conversation just because of questions. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (09:48.056)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (09:54.99)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (09:59.184)
Yes, so much. Yeah, I learn way more than any of my guests. It's right. And then you learn something that you're like, that's something I want to know more about. And it just keeps leading you down a path to learning.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (10:04.024)
Correct.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (10:09.548)
Right, and you just keep pulling the thread and here we are, right? So, you know, from there, it was really funny. I feel like any of your listeners in theater will identify with this, which is that I needed to make a living. And I thought to myself, well, the theater ain't gonna do it necessarily, at least right now. Yep, let's just be honest. It won't, correct?
Kira Troilo (10:12.431)
That's right.
Kira Troilo (10:28.348)
Nope. Nope. 99 % of the time, it won't. Mm-hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (10:33.846)
So I said, you know what, I really need to explore film and television as a medium. I'm also, I'm a huge consumer of film and television content or what we would probably say today is sort of episodic and like feature, you know, because the way we consume this has all changed. But, you know, I said, okay, that's an area where I need to grow in. so during college, what happened was I actually, got my first internship in entertainment off of a cold application online. This is a true story.
Kira Troilo (10:40.091)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (10:49.072)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (11:02.416)
Wow. Okay, yeah, there's some listeners who need to hear that.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (11:03.426)
Like I know, yeah, no, but you, by the way, is very unusual. Let's be very clear, but I always tell it because I'm like, throw your hat in. Who knows? Who knows? and so I had applied online, completely forgotten about it to dream works animation. And they gave me a call. is summer before my senior year. So this is for my junior summer into senior year. I got a call randomly from Kim Mackie, who I'm still friends with to this day.
Kira Troilo (11:12.656)
Yeah, right?
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (11:31.8)
who is the recruiter at DreamWorks Animation. And she said, we got your application and we'd to invite you to come be an intern on Bee Movie, which area Seinfeld. And I said, excuse me, what?
Kira Troilo (11:44.625)
big deal.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (11:44.81)
It, it, to be fair, I had gotten an internship at Google for the summer that then I had to pull out of to go to this. and, you know, thankfully animation at the time, it was very interesting at the animation at the time was actually one of the only entertainment areas that was paying interns. This is before the lawsuits happened about compensation for interns, right? They were just doing credit quote unquote. and of course, as you and I know,
Kira Troilo (11:50.972)
Wow.
Kira Troilo (12:06.171)
Mmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (12:12.278)
So much of this conversation is actually around socioeconomics. It's around money and access. so, thankfully, I had an uncle and aunt who I could stay with in LA. That was part of it. And then I got paid, actually, while I interned there, which allowed me to contribute to their bills while I stayed with them, thus making this all possible, right? And I could have a car that I could borrow, you know, all of that. And I worked as a production intern rotating through all the areas of production on an animated feature film.
Kira Troilo (12:21.745)
Huge.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (12:41.656)
So I learned the pipeline. was truly one of the greatest gifts that an internship has given me because I now understood, right? How something worked end to end. I ended up doing scratch vocal for them. Thank you, acting classes. And then ended up organizing the rap gift for the movie, which was Converse tennis shoes that matched the B's tennis shoes in the movie.
Kira Troilo (12:43.472)
Hmm.
Kira Troilo (13:06.237)
That's True.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (13:07.0)
True, true detail. I sat in a room with people's smelly feet while they tried on the sizes. Anyway, and so my senior summer, I then, I went after an internship at Pixar and they accepted me, I think for a couple of reasons, but one being that I had worked at a competitor the summer before. And what's amazing is that Pixar houses and pays their interns in the Bay area. So it's incredible because your housing is included.
Kira Troilo (13:11.802)
Yes!
Glamorous work.
Kira Troilo (13:25.095)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (13:32.285)
Mmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (13:36.32)
As part of your compensation thing is very important to name all these things. And so I was a production intern in DVDs and promos when we had DVDs bringing us back. Yes, those are discs everybody that we used to put in a machine.
Kira Troilo (13:50.033)
throwback. Yes, right, because some listeners won't maybe not know.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (13:55.97)
Correct. Look, we can't assume anybody knows. so, and it was all the ancillary, right? Material that went around the film. So the documentaries, right? The behind the scenes, all of that. So I worked in that department on the films up and Wally, still two of my favorite movies. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Kira literally squealed. That's what, and I, I was a recession grad, so was an O eight grad. So the recession hit, yes, you too.
Kira Troilo (13:58.567)
Mmm.
Kira Troilo (14:14.249)
I know, I just squealed.
Yes.
Kira Troilo (14:25.596)
Me too, yep. Emerson, let's do it, yep. Can you come back for season three?
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (14:26.517)
this is so real. We have to have a whole other podcast.
Absolutely. We'll just talk about what it is in a recession. feel like anyway, another day. Absolutely. And so went home without a job, interviewed all around the country. I basically ran a scheme where any company was willing to pay my travel. I stayed extra days on a friend's couch and then interviewed at more places because there was no work. You had to do that. was just what it was. and I ended up taking a reality television production job.
Kira Troilo (14:35.952)
yeah, yep, another day. Yep, got a lot to say about that.
Kira Troilo (14:54.472)
I'll
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (15:00.64)
in LA, which moved me to LA. and my mom gave me what I affectionately call the immigrant speech, which is you're wasting your education. I actually got that one. And I said, I need you to trust me. I see you shaking your head. Yes. because, know, I was turning down other opportunities that were far more lucrative. and she was concerned about my wellbeing, you know? and so I flew out, I made a pact with my college best friend.
Kira Troilo (15:11.817)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (15:30.21)
We moved into an apartment together in LA and split the rent. And I worked on an animal attacks survivor show called I'm alive. Yes. It's exactly what it sounds like. Yep. Animal attacks, reenactments, the whole bit with animals. Let me be very clear. Real animals.
Kira Troilo (15:39.164)
Wow.
Kira Troilo (15:44.115)
Yep, I'd love to.
Kira Troilo (15:53.246)
We're gonna have to search YouTube and see if we can find this.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (15:55.382)
God, yes. Okay, so it was Animal Planet, I'm Alive, season one. I'm a blurred out extra in about half the episodes when we ran out of extras for paramedics. Anyway, and I did this for about three months. Was in an elephant park in Palmdale, California in the middle of the desert with fake blood on my hands. And for all of you nerds out there, it is ketchup and corn syrup for anybody wondering at home. And I literally,
Kira Troilo (16:04.881)
Incredible.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (16:23.166)
stared at those hands. This is a true story. And went, what am I doing with my life? and the, next, this is true. The next day I called the only person beside the DreamWorks folks that I knew in LA, which was a Puerto Rican friend of my family, Jose, who worked at NBC universal. And I called him. said, Jose, I have got to get out of this gig. What do you have? And he said,
Kira Troilo (16:43.648)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (16:49.599)
Hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (16:51.842)
There's a job in diversity as it was called at the time. is 2009 and drama programming. And he changed the course of my entire life with that phone call. And I went in interviewed with them, convinced them I could solve problems because you know, humans versus animals. mean pretty straightforward. Exactly. I'm like, this is easy by comparison.
Kira Troilo (16:55.91)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (17:12.065)
Does it get harder than that?
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (17:17.442)
They had me write analysis of a script or coverage, right? Which they do for creative jobs for folks who are not familiar with the process. And basically, you know, told them they shouldn't make the show and I got the job three days later. Which I think also speaks to creatively how you have to stick by your opinions and beliefs in creative material. And I think it was an early lesson in that. And so that launched, that job at NBCUniversal launched my 15 year career now.
Kira Troilo (17:38.035)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (17:46.528)
in DEIB work. And I've worked, and people read my bio, but I've worked everywhere from NBC Universal running the behind the camera talent programs, especially for writers and directors, to Google where I worked in Latin America, as well as led the image of STEM work, like changing the images around STEM, which I'm happy to talk more about. And then more recently at Disney where I built the practice of the Walt Disney Studios and worked on great, great films from Encanto to Coco to Soul to Ryan the Last Dragon, the West Side Story remake to Mo-
live action Mulan and the list goes on. And then I launched my own company three years ago, Collective Moxie, which I'm happy to talk more about. And this is my story. It's a blessing and due to many amazing people, many of whom were from our communities and who were also women, I'd like to name as well. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (18:19.295)
casual.
Kira Troilo (18:37.814)
Yes, wow. that's so amazing. And yeah, I I restrained myself from squealing at those movie titles, especially in Kanto. Yes. my gosh. Wow. No, I want to talk about all of it, but I'd love to hear a bit about your Ted talk. When you talk about the CSI effect, you said you could go a little bit more into the STEM and all of that. yeah, I'd love to hear that kind of just seems like.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (18:44.15)
I still squeal. Yeah. Yeah.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (18:55.448)
Yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (18:59.479)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (19:06.559)
foundational for the DEI work that it looks like you're doing. So, yeah, I would love to hear that.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (19:10.25)
Absolutely. the work we're doing here, as you well know, is all around inclusive storytelling. why do stories that reflect our world, the complexity, the beauty of our world, why is that so important? And why is representation and authenticity within that representation so important as part of that process? And a great example of this, which is what you're referring to, is the work...
that started my days at Google, but I still feel like I do every day, which is around how we have portrayed careers in the STEM field, science, technology, engineering, and math. And obviously, these fields have become only more important in our world now with the advent of AI, sort of going mainstream, if you will, though we've all been using it for a long time, as well as just the sort of globalization of our world and technology's impact.
Kira Troilo (19:49.057)
Mm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (20:06.686)
If we don't have everybody at the table designing that future world technologically, we have a gigantic problem that's going to form because it's not a world that will actually include everybody. And at the end of the day, everybody loses if that's the case, right? You know, we have to think in an abundance modality, a scarcity one. And the data actually backs this up in really interesting ways, which is the CSI effect that you're talking about. So
Kira Troilo (20:14.359)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (20:20.865)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (20:35.106)
I'll start with the research that sort of began the work when I did it at Google and really set us on a path was Google had done research as to why girls specifically were sort of checking out of computer science engineering around the age of 13, which seemed to be the sort of critical moment. And I can attest as a woman in this world that that is absolutely a critical moment in your own discovery.
Kira Troilo (20:52.418)
Mmm.
Kira Troilo (21:00.384)
Yep. Can. Yep, as well.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (21:04.194)
The number two reason that they identified was perception of the career. Young women had rightly ingested the nerdy hacker stereotype that had permeated for 30 years. You know, we all know it. you could probably just paint a picture in your head listeners as you're listening to us, right? It's a guy, probably white, you sometimes East or South Asian, right? Who wears a hoodie.
Kira Troilo (21:27.82)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (21:33.638)
has glasses, nobody has contacts for some reason, lives in his mom's basement, eats pizza. Like there's a very specific stereotype and it had done its job. it had literally told generations of women, this is not for you. so young women were saying in the, the research that they, couldn't do it with their friends. They didn't think they were smart enough, which to me is the most,
Kira Troilo (21:45.293)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (22:03.128)
heart wrenching finding. Like somehow you have to be a genius to learn something. And also by the way, at least half of those young women were already showing proficiency in the basic skills, just to say. And I can't change the world with it, which was a really interesting gap. Like this idea of social justice, Connected to the idea of becoming a computer scientist or engineer. And as we know,
Kira Troilo (22:04.12)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (22:09.004)
Right?
Kira Troilo (22:17.016)
Yeah.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (22:32.334)
It is fundamentally changing our world and we have to decide whether for good or not. And so Google called and said, hey, you've worked with writers. Can we start to tackle this? And one of the data points that was cited to us early on was something called the CSI effect. So we're not just making this up in our heads as to why stories matter. That when CSI or crime scene investigators came to be in the year 2000, listeners, you might have watched one of the four.
Kira Troilo (22:36.428)
Right.
Kira Troilo (22:52.429)
Mm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (23:01.324)
that exist now in the universe and different cities. The original one's in Las Vegas. And it was about forensic scientists, right? The show centers on forensic scientists who solve crimes, usually murders, through forensic science, the use of forensic science. And there were a lot of women in lead character roles in the show and eventually from all different backgrounds. And one of the things that social scientists started to look at was there was this increase
Kira Troilo (23:03.744)
Right.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (23:30.55)
in forensic science majors across the country and in the UK due to the show. Five years later, there was a 50, five zero percent increase in forensic science majors in both places with an over-indexing in women. And what is wild is that forensic science to this day in 2024 to timestamp us is the only STEM profession that has gender parity.
Kira Troilo (23:48.235)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (24:00.536)
Wow, yeah, look at that.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (24:01.386)
And so this is the profundity of why storytelling, why does storytelling matter? Because it drives our own biases, whether about ourselves or about other people. And that can have ripple effects, both positive or negative, into our world, into what we're capable of, and actually quite frankly, innovation itself. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (24:11.652)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (24:26.979)
Yes. Yeah, wow. I mean, it's really just mind blowing. like, think especially in theater, we've gotten the message, know, representation matters, you know, and I think about the stories of, you know, seeing, you know, a black bell, for example, and like Beauty and the Beast and I can be that too. And many origin stories like mine as well. It's like, I didn't see.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (24:42.883)
Yep.
Kira Troilo (24:50.754)
you what I wanted to be on stage. if you, I think you say this like, yeah, if you can't imagine it, you can't see it, then you can't become it. But yes, Gina Davis, that's right.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (24:53.496)
That's right.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (24:58.584)
That's exactly right. It's good old Gina Davis says, if you can't see it, you can't be it. And in fictional worlds, we can change it overnight. That's the other part. She says this all the time. And I think it's absolutely true, right? Is in all these places and spaces we operate in, we can make any decision, you know? And what an incredible opportunity that is. Yeah, yeah.
Kira Troilo (25:07.929)
We-
Kira Troilo (25:16.888)
We can, yes.
Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I mean, it's just, course, for, you know, for people just being able to imagine what they can be. But you make a real case for, you know, no, it's this with the computer science and AI. This is real ramifications in our world. Like this is this is money. This is a business case for representation. you yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (25:36.75)
Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's an employment case too. know, the reason people always ask me, why did Google do that research back in the day? And this is in like 2013, 2014, right? And I said, because they were afraid there would be nobody to hire eventually. Because if we don't train a workforce globally in the skills of the future, we don't have a workforce to actually build our world, like quite literally.
Kira Troilo (25:48.803)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (26:02.916)
Right?
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (26:06.614)
And so by leaving people out, you're actually impacting the whole. And that's what people have to remember. You have, you're impacting the possibilities of the whole, which means we all lose if we don't include. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (26:11.811)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (26:18.116)
Right. Wow. Yeah. And yeah, it just has me like...
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (26:23.212)
Right.
Kira Troilo (26:23.984)
There's so many situations where it's like, I communicate with people and I go in and do workshops and EDI trainings and that kind of stuff. And people are like, well, there's just more, there just happens to be more men in this field, for example, because that's just like a male skill set or just the stories that I hear people say, and maybe our audience of theater, compassionate theater people is rolling their eyes. But true, it's like the stories that we see.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (26:45.229)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (26:53.903)
feed into the stories we tell ourselves about why we can or why we can't. Yeah, it's crazy.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (26:57.752)
Yes. Absolutely. And it's like, you know, we always say cutting off our noses by our face. We seem to do it over and over again. It's like, yes. And I think this is the really important reframing in this work. I think there's been a framing, you and I were talking about this before we got online, which is that this framing of sort of us versus them, or if you get something, I lose something, which is a scarcity mentality.
Kira Troilo (27:05.751)
Yeah, we do!
Kira Troilo (27:13.411)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (27:21.956)
Mm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (27:27.138)
when actually we need to flip to an abundance modality, which is if you're included, if somebody else who has been excluded is included, we actually get better as a whole, which is inclusive design principle, as you know, right? Which is we design with the most visibly impacted group or people at the center of that design, it gets better for the whole. And that, this is the framing we need to be operating in because right now,
To me, it feels like this entire conversation is being framed in a scarcity model or modality. And it's doing nobody any good or any favors actually at the end of the day because we all lose in that modality. You know? Yeah.
Kira Troilo (28:09.84)
Correct. I feel that in the name of your company, Collective Moxie. So I'd love to hear how that came about. Also just like the word Moxie is so awesome. So I'm sure there's a great story behind it. I'd love to hear.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (28:14.978)
Yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (28:22.338)
Yes. Absolutely. Well, podcast about stories, know, so here we get a so collective moxie is a very intentional name as you highlight, Kira. So moxie is a word I've liked for a long time. It's an older word and usually more American or U.S. lexicon from about 100 years ago. And it was often used to describe women.
which is something I particularly like about it. Like if you go back and trace it with an old Hollywood movies, you know, and all of that, like, she's got Moxie. That usually is the expression you would hear, right? And Moxie sort of being that extra spunk, oomph, like the thing that takes something over the finish line, you know? And I just love the sound of it, the feel of it. And I love that it's been coded feminine for a long time for a host of reasons, although I think it applies to anybody. It can apply to anybody.
Kira Troilo (28:55.907)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (29:09.841)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (29:15.038)
and so I'm trying to revive the word because I think it's the kind of thing we need right now is to think about this concept of moxie. Like our, our moxie is actually what's going to get us there, which is that we have to try just that little bit harder, that little extra oomph and it will get there. but we have to do it collectively, which is where the first part of the name of the company comes from, which is, our tagline is, that we believe that change takes our collective moxie.
Kira Troilo (29:20.039)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (29:37.542)
Right.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (29:43.68)
So if we're looking to make positive change in this world, to leave it better than we found it, which is something I picked up actually in college with the Kumba Singers of Harvard College, which Kumba is a Swahili word that means creativity, but a better definition or a more accurate definition is doing what you can with what you have to leave a place better than you found it. And collective moxie, I think is very rooted in that idea, which is that
Kira Troilo (30:04.454)
Mmm. Mmm, that's beautiful.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (30:12.948)
It takes our collective action, movement, collaboration, our collective moxie to actually get anything done that is positive for our world. And so that's really where the name and the spirit come from. And we talk about it on our website, our statement, but we're rooted in joy. And part of that is also very intentional. I know you feel this deeply in your own work, which is that all of this is actually unlocking and beautiful and creative.
Kira Troilo (30:22.632)
Hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (30:42.528)
and liberating and is liberating for everybody actually at the end of the day because the structures and systems that we live in are are awful. They're so broken. We know they're broken. Everybody is saying it right now in some way shape or form. It's actually the thing we have in common right now. Right. Truly. And the opportunity that exists was saying, wait a second, what if we got together used our collective oomph, right? Our collective moxie.
Kira Troilo (30:46.46)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (30:59.692)
Truly.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (31:10.752)
and actually left this place better than we found it. So that's where we come from. And we're an inclusive storytelling consultancy firm. We work with clients, both for-profit and non-profit, that are looking to better improve their storytelling practices to be more inclusive, more connected to the communities that they touch. And that generally means their audience. And kind of riffing on this idea that if you want to see a different result, you have to do things differently from a process perspective.
Kira Troilo (31:39.016)
Mm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (31:40.694)
And so we really believe that we have to look at this from a creative process standpoint. It cannot be banked on a single individual or a team to take this over the finish line. It actually has to be baked into the DNA of how you are thinking about your creativity and your creative process. And so we help organizations through that exercise into hopefully a new day for them, which is only going to maximize not only their impact in the marketplace, right? In whatever way that means.
Kira Troilo (32:03.593)
Mmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (32:10.072)
But if they're a for-profit entity that's gonna maximize their business results in return, we talked about that already, absolutely. And if they're a non-profit, it's gonna maximize the impact of what they're trying to do in the narrative space. And we really believe that it is actually an unlocking mechanism for every other part of your business or organization. So the other ways we do work, beside the deep strategy work, is we'll sign on for specific projects. So...
Kira Troilo (32:37.833)
Mm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (32:38.38)
whether it be a DEI lexicon or an actual creative project or campaign. And then we also do education in this space. So I teach like you, I teach at Georgia Tech, now a class on inclusive storytelling. I'll be teaching again in the spring of 25. And also we teach it for creative teams. So what does inclusive storytelling actually mean? And let's unpack all the things that undergird it, right? So that's everything from the history of stereotypes and tropes, like where...
Kira Troilo (33:00.774)
Mm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (33:08.11)
like the context in which your audience and you sit in, in the narrative lexicon is a really important thing to understand. I'm going to use the Bath and Body Works candle as an example of that, that went viral recently where it was supposed to be a snowflake, but looked like KKK hoods. Yeah. And I think it's a really good example of different people see different things, but you need to understand that as part of the context.
Kira Troilo (33:15.561)
Mmm.
Kira Troilo (33:21.928)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (33:26.01)
yeah. Mm-hmm, rough.
Kira Troilo (33:32.542)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (33:36.256)
of the audiences broadly that you are serving. That is a narrative context that needs to be understood and then decisions need to be made with that context, right? Or it's about talking about narrative ownership. Who can tell what story? What does that even mean? Is that the conversation we should be having? Or is that reductive in and of itself? But we need to make space to have those conversations. And space is not when you're under a deadline trying to get a creative project over the finish line.
Kira Troilo (33:46.015)
night.
Kira Troilo (33:51.018)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (34:03.274)
Hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (34:06.682)
not conducive, as you and I know, gets those biases rearing right to the top. And so, you know, when we think about education, I'm sure you feel the same way in workshop space, it's really about creating an environment where you can be brave and have these conversations with each other so that then you can communicate more effectively as a creative team across difference, understanding and recognizing your differences, and you're going to get a better result at the end. You're going to make better creative, hands down.
Kira Troilo (34:12.318)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (34:34.794)
That's right.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (34:35.486)
and that, and that for me is some of the most fun work to watch is when the light bulbs go off and you see it like real time. That's the educator in me is like, exactly. And then it's about shared accountability from there. We always talk about that in every aspect of our work, which is this becomes about shared accountability to each other and to the work. And you have to hold yourselves accountable to that. That's not a me thing. That's a you all as a team. And that has to also be embedded. So.
That's a bit about what we do.
Kira Troilo (35:05.835)
That's right. And I get so jazzed about brave spaces and I talk a lot about that in the work we do in theater. And because I think there's this perception that DEI or EDI or DEIV, whatever you want to call it, is...
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (35:13.645)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (35:22.945)
like putting people down or shaming. It's like, no, we can all get excited about this. It should be the fuel that helps us create these spaces so that we can do that hard challenging work, right? It's exciting.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (35:26.478)
Mm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (35:38.04)
That's exactly right. Kira, say that again for the people in the back. That was brilliant. Yes. Yes.
Kira Troilo (35:42.119)
my gosh. Well, we have a whole episode on it. I talk in a solo this season about brave spaces and I'm making the analogy between stunt performers and people who perform like emotionally challenging material. It's like, well, you wouldn't just have a person, stunt person go and like jump off a building. Like you have to create the environment in which that they can do that hard challenging and brave work. So yeah, I would go on all day, but it's a yeah.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (35:52.077)
Mmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (35:55.662)
Mm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (36:07.502)
That's exactly right. What a brilliant analogy. That's a brilliant analogy. Yes.
Kira Troilo (36:12.79)
Thank you. it's the people over-inducing or understanding physical stress or physical safety over the deeper right.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (36:20.994)
Yes, correct. That's exactly right. And that it connects to mental and emotional safety, right? And the scaffolding that we need to build around these conversations and teams for long-term sustainability. We just have to name those things out loud. Like, it doesn't just magically happen.
Kira Troilo (36:27.734)
That's right.
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (36:40.096)
Right.
That's right. Yeah.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (36:43.358)
Exactly right. And to think so is actually a fool's errand and incredibly dangerous actually, because it can have the negative effect as we all know. It can set the conversation back in terms of communication if you don't have, as you're saying, the setup, right? And then somebody would physically break their arm, right? Or possibly die in that setup. And we have to think about it the same way. I love that. think scaffolding for me is always such a great thing because you think about why, how would you build a building?
Kira Troilo (37:02.283)
Yep.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (37:11.606)
without putting the scaffolding around and the harnesses in place for people to be able to build that together. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (37:18.536)
Exactly right, and that would be unimaginable and it should be as well. Yes! This seems like just a perfect segue to just like, you know, the attack, it seems like to me, you know, an attack on DEI work in general.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (37:21.974)
Unimaginable. Yes. And a lawsuit immediately. Yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (37:33.083)
yeah.
Kira Troilo (37:38.268)
And to me, and it seems like we're on the same page here, it's about really understanding what the real work of it is. And, you know, maybe like a rebranding or a reframing of what it is. Yeah. So can you say a bit about that on your end?
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (37:49.398)
Yes, yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (37:54.37)
yes, I mean we've teed it up beautifully, Kira. I mean, I think we're totally aligned on this, right? Which is the framework in which people understand this is all over the place. And quite frankly, it's been hijacked and capital P politicized in a way that it should not be because it's our human existence. It is the way humans are and will be. are diverse. We are all over the place. We are multitudes, to quote, right? The brilliant. Multitudes is...
Is it Maya Angelou? Are we a multitudes? Is that right? I'm quoting. We're gonna fact check that everybody. But it's one of my favorite quotes because it's true. And in being multitudes, that's just the fact of our human existence. so, for me, I think a lot about, one of the things I keep saying to a lot of executives is reports of my death are greatly exaggerated, which is how I feel about all of this.
Kira Troilo (38:26.914)
think so. We're gonna... yep.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (38:51.34)
which is, you know, this death of DEI and all that. I said, you know, that seems a bit extreme given the humanness of this. And also all the data, by the way, that has been collected since this backlash began that shows that the majority of people in organizations, and this was on the corporate side, want this work. They may not think it's being the most effective right now, which by the way, I would argue it's not. I think we can keep it proving and being better. Correct.
Kira Troilo (39:18.37)
Fully agree, yep.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (39:19.918)
And I think that's part of the practice of it, which is why it's called a practice. That's also why being a doctor is a practice. It's the practice of medicine because we continue back to the physical body, right? And the mental and emotional is because we continue to learn as we do it and iterate and improve. And so that feedback I'm fine with. And by the way, in the U.S. it was across political parties, the support around it in organizations because inherently
Kira Troilo (39:43.491)
Wow.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (39:46.548)
Every individual, it's a human, it's a very human tendency of wanting to belong and wanting to feel included. And if we, we have to center it in that, which is that this is what it's really about in order to get there. There's a lot of different kinds of work we have to do because we're dealing with structures, interpersonal and individual, right? Work. However, the true, the truism of the human condition,
Kira Troilo (39:53.891)
Right?
Kira Troilo (40:00.397)
Yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (40:16.436)
is that we all want to feel included and that we belong and that it is healthier for everybody if everybody feels that way because it unlocks our best work and unlocks our creativity. It's all the things we're talking about here. And so this reframing to me is essential, is essential if we're going to go anywhere. And then I think the other thing that we have found at Collective Moxie in really interesting ways, and this is feedback from our clients as well as prospective clients we've been talking to,
Kira Troilo (40:24.898)
That's right.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (40:45.262)
is this question of where do we go from here? We're getting this question a lot. And I always say it's storytelling. Every time that's what it comes back to because of the narrative about not only this work, but about ourselves and each other, about different groups of people, does not change. The rest of it doesn't matter because we could be doing every kind of great policy out there. We could be building all kinds of infrastructures.
Kira Troilo (40:48.206)
Hmm.
Kira Troilo (41:08.163)
Hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (41:14.936)
But if culture does not shift with that, it just falls flat. It's like nothing. And so for me, the way forward here is to really think about the narratives about ourselves, about each other, questioning what we think about ourselves, what we think about other people, and unpacking that together. And that connects us, and I think for a theater podcast, affectionately, I think you all understand this deeply.
Kira Troilo (41:34.755)
Mm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (41:44.65)
It connects us to our human self and then to understanding across difference. And then from there comes the not just understanding, but the excitement, the love, the joy, everything else that comes from that as you build and grow from there. And that's why the arts is so powerful. That's why storytelling to me is the next step here. And I think it provides a way to understand this work that
Kira Troilo (41:50.382)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (42:01.998)
That's right.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (42:13.994)
almost goes around or supersedes the prevailing capital P politicized narratives that are out there. And I'm already seeing it happen with our clients and with some of the folks we're talking to, but this is resonating with people because you can't deny somebody's humanity when it's their story.
Kira Troilo (42:27.714)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (42:33.838)
Mmm, I'm like, say that again.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (42:34.974)
You cannot deny somebody's humanity when it is their story. Because that is not an aggregate. That is a human to human experience. And from there we can do anything, I think. We can just build from there.
Kira Troilo (42:50.734)
Yeah, not easy work, but yes, it's not. It is, it's not political. It is, it is.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (42:54.464)
It's, but, isn't it beautiful? Like it's so exciting creatively. Like what could be anyway? Yes.
Kira Troilo (43:01.58)
Yes, yes. Okay, we're going to talk on our follow-up episode all about that.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (43:05.806)
Yes. my God. Yes. This is like a whole other, that's like a, we're going to just have a whole creative conversation. Yes. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (43:12.034)
Yes. Well, I know that you have, you have a podcast as well and you know, talking about storytelling. So I'd love to hear about that. And then also just, what do you have that, you know, people can follow and, you know, just learn more about your work or, or get more excited about this. Yeah.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (43:17.731)
Yes.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (43:31.254)
I love it, Kira. Thank you for that. you know what we call the shameless plug in our business. so absolutely. So our website is collective moxie, M-O-X-I-E dot com. So anybody can visit us there and you can check out everything. The podcast is also on the site, but we're on every major podcasting platform. It's called You Got Moxie is the podcast. And the way that we frame it is around the how of change making. So
Kira Troilo (43:36.79)
We love a shameless plug, yep.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (43:58.688)
A lot of people in the US at least are familiar with Guy Rauz's How I Built This podcast, which has been around for a long time talking about founders and how people built companies and organizations. Well, we're asking the question, how did you change it? How did you change that? That's it. And what we discovered in sort of working our client, working also over my 15 year career in this space, is there are incredible people doing incredible work across sectors.
And we're not talking to each other and we're not learning from each other. And so we're repeating the same mistakes or we're not maximizing things that are working. And so You Got Moxie is all about unpacking how people, you know, just like you and me, made positive change in their community, in their industry, in their work. And how did they face challenges? How did they think about that? What happened, you know, when something didn't go the way they expected, you know, how did they find the energy to keep going?
Cause this work is hard here, as you just said. So how do you refill your creative cup? Right? How do you fill your spiritual cup? You know, even if you're not in the creative field, right? and so this is really the goal you got Moxie. say it's, it's really about learning from each other, being community, being collective in our collective Moxie, if you will, it's all branded and connected folks. but that, but also in reality, it ends up being a podcast about leadership.
Kira Troilo (44:58.509)
It's so hard!
Kira Troilo (45:19.643)
We love it.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (45:24.576)
It's actually a podcast quite specifically about inclusive leadership, which is great leadership. You cannot be a great leader without being an inclusive leader. Period. Full stop. and what ends up being revealed are real leadership strategies of how do you as an individual or as a collective, right? Step into your leadership role into your leadership self. Cause everybody's a leader in their own right. You don't have to have a title.
Kira Troilo (45:24.721)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (45:32.933)
That's right, period. Yep.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (45:52.968)
And move a ball forward, right? Or, you know, carry something forward. and one of the insights has been most powerful from this first season was something that I think we believe very deeply in DEIB work, which is that this work is long-term work. We are building, as a dear friend of mine, Vanessa Roanhorse says, we are building on the continuum.
of all those ancestors who came before us and all those who are going to come after us. And we won't live to see the impacts, the downstream impacts of what we do today, but we're doing our part to make that future possible. And that future will keep being pushed forward by those who come after us. And that for me is really what we end up exchanging about at You Got Moxie, which is
Kira Troilo (46:27.121)
you
Kira Troilo (46:42.437)
Hmm.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (46:48.322)
How do we take the long view with the urgency of now and make it so that we leave this place better than we found it? Back to the principle of Kumba. And so I hope that folks will listen and tune in. We love you theater folks, we want you there. And I believe the theater leads, it has survived throughout time. And I think that we should always be looking to those art forms that have been here forever.
Kira Troilo (46:52.133)
Hmm.
Kira Troilo (46:58.875)
Yeah.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (47:18.511)
to tell us where we need to go. So, yeah.
Kira Troilo (47:21.873)
That's right. I love that. Thank you. And we have so much that we can learn from each other and none of us are alone. Yeah, so.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (47:26.434)
Yes.
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. and please everybody tune in because I've known in this first season, Kira, I know you can relate to this from now being on your second season, which is, I invited a lot of people I knew in the first season knew well, like I've known them for like, you know, a decade. And I think we were talking about this before the podcast recording, which is I have learned new things about every single one of those people. And it's all because of the questions.
Kira Troilo (47:45.125)
Yep, same.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (47:59.766)
I had just never asked. And here we are. And so just to say, if I can ruminate on one learning, that is one, which could we not keep asking each other great questions and engaging with each other because there's always something more to learn and to exchange.
Kira Troilo (47:59.835)
Goes back to curiosity. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (48:18.715)
That is kind of the philosophy of the DEI, EDI work that I'm excited to do.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (48:24.972)
That's exactly right. And that's why we're in it. People say, how do you do this? I'm like that.
Kira Troilo (48:27.653)
Yeah. Just that, yeah. What does, before we'll do maybe a final little plug. So what do you think from where you stand, the future of inclusion, what does the future of inclusion look like in theater and the arts?
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (48:33.186)
That, that.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (48:47.168)
my gosh. my gosh. Well, the dream, which I think we can make a reality, is that every single person, I believe, on the face of the earth has at least one moment in their life, if not many, where they see themselves and the communities in which they live reflected on screen and back to them in ways not only that are affirming but are challenging, that connect dots and that break down harmful
narratives into what I would consider more complete narratives. Because stereotype and trope is just incomplete narrative. And I think that for me, the future of inclusion is a future where we have far more whole narratives about all different kinds of people in all different kinds of experiences told in all different modalities, right? Including games, including interactive in virtual spaces, however this all ends up going.
right from a delivery mechanism. At the heart of it, it's that. So that we actually all feel like we belong. And that for me is the future of inclusion. If I had to name where I would love to see it go.
Kira Troilo (50:00.123)
That's, that belongs in a dictionary definition. Very beautiful. Thank you so much. And you mentioned that you have a series coming up for your podcast. So I just want folks to hear about that.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (50:03.576)
Thank you.
Thank you.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (50:12.642)
That's right.
Absolutely. And thanks for the plug again, Kira. So, so you got Moxie podcast subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts were everywhere also on our website too. and it's a, we have a bit.ly link B I T dot L Y forward slash you got Moxie O X I E that'll take you to RSS feed, making it really easy. and coming up, we were very blessed to be able to record five shorter episodes.
Kira Troilo (50:17.903)
Yes!
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (50:42.248)
at the annual Georgia State of the Industry Summit, which was a gathering of the entertainment industry across the state of Georgia, talking about all sorts of big topics. And I had five amazing guests join me in conversation live from the conference, talking about all things from storytelling and art to why Georgia and the Southeast is so important and instrumental in this work and in this work of creativity and equity.
And also they themselves, what are they getting inspired by and what's moving them forward in this time and place we're sitting in. So please everybody tune into that. We'll be going live with that mid January of 2025. And you can check it out again at You Got Moxie.
Kira Troilo (51:13.051)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (51:27.429)
Fantastic. Well, I am excited to check that out as well. Thank you so much, Julianne. I'm so grateful to have you and now grateful to know you.
Julie Ann Crommett (she/ella) (51:35.902)
it's a pleasure, Kira. Thank you for having this podcast and for giving of yourself every day in the work and for all the change making you're doing. Thank you so much.
Kira Troilo (51:44.817)
Thank you
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